raimund minichbauer:
you curated interference:public
sound together with anna harding. what is the
general concept of interference and how has radio and streaming media acquired an important
role in the project?
ilze
black: anna and me,
we both had mainly experience in curating visual
arts. this time in the framework of republicart,
anna proposed a curatorial concept that is based
on sound works. the field of contemporary art practice
has developed in new directions and in many cases
today we can't only refer to the 'visual' when we
talk about a contemporary art practice. sound is
still less talked about, but it has been an artistic
practice for long time. we commissioned four artists
to create a body of work that deals with the idea
of the public and sound. In some cases we decided
to invest in the ideas the artist were already working
on, in order to make them actually possible or to
make them more publicly accessible. we selected
those particular projects, because they all are
partially dealing with the ecology and politics
of the airspace and sound as a medium or interface
of those.
in the early stages we
went through lots of concepts that dealt with sound
and in some way also with the concept of the public,
nevertheless we kept referring back to the general
republicart-concept
which was focusing its attention to the practice
where art meets activism, so to speak. so bearing
that in mind, if we honestly look around what's
happening in that sphere, i should say i find the
politics of radio and internet and streaming-projects
most proactive as they do engage in discussions
of shared space and public ressources.
raimund minichbauer:
in the framework of interference
currently a 24 hours radio station is being maintained,
which is part of the project radio
cycle. how did radio
cycle develop?
ilze black: radio
cycle is a project initiated by the sound artist
kaffe matthews, although i must admit that i have
some input in this all as well. we had long discussions
with kaffe on how and what would be necessary for
true public radio to exist. it grew out from the
idea of running radio-building workshops using short
distance radio transmitters. again, if everyone
could build its own little radio transmitter everybody
could become a radio. here i guess, this is referreing
to the brechtian idea of two-way radio. so we wanted
to encourage people to build their own radio, and
then we wanted to run a mobile radio station which
could roll through streets and pick up the sounds
from these little radios and transmit it further,
and there would be lots of little radiomixing things
happening with people who take part in the workshops
and so on. but then this idea was not possible because
in the uk one can't have mobile radio licenses as
such. also because of a lack of money for the radio
building workshops, we ended up with running audio
crafting workshops for broadcasts. that way we at
least can give first hand experience to the general
public in broadcasting and sound-making. so we set
it up in idea
store.
it was a good place, because it is a place local
people know, and they can come and learn something.
raimund minichbauer:
you are directly involved in radio
cycle. what is you own specific interest in
this?
ilze black: one thing
that is interesting is this whole concept of access
radio, i.e. the possibility to create access to
the airspace for a community, be it local, artistic
or self-made. as a normal being you don't have much
opportunity to think about how the air is actually
moderated, politically manipulated, etc. that's
why the question is interesting, can an individual
access the air and how? for me it was challenging
from the very beginning, from finding out about
how to get a license to actually to see what you
can do when you have an access.
another aspect i was very
much interested in, was that artists in today's
society, in today's economical and political situation,
and specifically in the local area are almost forced
to become educators. we wanted to focus on the local
area as well and as you can see that all projects
are very local. this whole concept about art as
education and the need for art to have educational
values is quite criticised, at the same time there
are some interesting aspects in it, too. what you
find, is that many artists basically are employed
to run workshops in schools, workshops in community
groups, to do all these different kinds of educational
work. how does that affect their own practice and
how does that affect the audience or the participant?
so in a sense i really wanted to have radio
cycle around because it touches upon those topics
while allowing place for experiment. we run a workshops
now and in a sense support people who are interested
to learn, but we also let kids almost take over
and do what they want to do, and we use those unexpected
outcomes to create further beginnings.
raimund minichbauer:
what is the general situation of radio stations
here in east london, especially with regard to pirate
radio stations?
ilze black: i think that
lots of the pirate radios come out of bedrooms at
the moment. there is 'sound radio'
in hackney, which is in a way the 'headquarters'
of all pirates. they are now legal and they had
an am license - am licenses are cheaper, but the
technology is more difficult to sustain, to set
up, etc. a couple of pirates made together this
24 hours radio station, which is now broadcasting
in 15 languages. but if you tune in on fm radio
here in east london now - and i think south london
and east london obviously are most overloaded at
the moment with pirates -, it's lots of club sounds,
but also lots of local sounds. you now start getting
drum'n bass, hardcore radio, or you get radio like
erotica etc. the pirates in general blossomed in the last two, three
years. in the early-/mid-90s, there wasn't much
happening. but on the other hand that was the time,
when the first streaming radios started. what is
interesting about radio
cycle, is that we are using this hybrid medium
of this moment. both fm and streaming, we are even
using local free wifi network free2air to transmit
over. so we are broadcasting using all possible
ways, and we want to talk about that. also it seems
that at the moment many people are buying transmitters,
so there probably will be many more of on-air-radios
around, but i think streaming media probably will
be the most accessible way for the future. the license
for fm stations are still quite expensive. for radio
cycle we paid for ten days thousand pounds,
so it costs a lot of money to be a legal radio.
raimund minichbauer:
is this the main reason, why there are so many pirates?
ilze black: yes. i would
say so. at the moment we have pirate sounds sometimes
going over our frequency as well. somebody explained
me that the situation is that once the radio authority
issues a license to someone, they publicise all
information, and the pirates just follow this information
and they tune in the same frequencies - that way
they are more invisible. the same time they claim
they have been in this frequency for the last 10
years so it could be from the other side that we
got sold the band that is well known to be pirate.
so its not very clear who is right, but that is
not so important maybe, as at the end of the day
it's about how do you exist side by side. now we
are faced with this question - do you report pirate
radio stations taking over your wave? what's your
position towards it? from my perspective, i guess,
radio cycle
only exists because of the pirates, that is almost
the inspiration.
raimund minichbauer:
in what sense is it the inspiration?
ilze black: well, however
i love the bbc - they are really doing great work
-, but i believe it is about diversity, that many
voices can be heard. the reality of state radio
now is that there are not many voices allowed to
be heard.
raimund minichbauer:
is there no possibility to get a cheaper license
for a community radio?
ilze black: no, not really.
the license we got is what they call 'access radio',
that's the cheapest one can get for now.
raimund minichbauer:
is there a political scene among the pirates or
is it a more or less entirely subcultural club scene?
ilze black: i heard yesterday
that there is a radio in russia, which is only counting
numbers. nobody knows where they come from, but
they just count numbers, some abstract kind of codes.
i think germany also is a big place for obscure
radio stations. here in london it is more club music,
bedroom music. and then there is resonance.fm,
which is the only artistic radio station. they don't
do advertisements and they play obscure stuff, and
also groups like indymedia run a news section there
quite regularly. that brings certain communities
together, and i think resonance
is a central fm station for the activist networks
right now. we also had a co-operation with them
for interference,
we had five shows on resonance.
so it's been great to have them and i hope they
get the support needed to sustain that.
raimund minichbauer:
what about this question of doing pirate radio or
audio streaming over the internet, where the access
is not legally restricted?
ilze black: well, at
the end of the day, if we are talking about streaming
that means you need to have a streaming server.
that is what i also find interesting in this project.
we are specifically using an open software streaming
server to emphasise free access and free tools.
but the server we use is in germany. locally in
london, there is maybe one or two independent art
servers more broadly known. being a bedroom producer,
how can you find these connections? in london we
have spc-server,
which has been the only one for the last seven years
supporting the independent projects. but because
it is independent it's also problematic, because
of a lack of money that means its sustainability
and also it is not really about choice. that is
why the wireless networking and the peer-to-peer
things become more interesting. so you can run your
own server and be a radio station and be part of
a network. maybe more local, but again that depends
on the future and the community. it's a bit a different
debate, but i think that is potentially where the
future is, your computer hosts whatever tunes you
have and you share that within your peer network.
raimund minichbauer:
in interference
there are two forms of radio: on air transmittance
and net radio like radio20pwhitechapel/uphone, where you can call in and your message
gets automatically uploaded to the net. does this
mean, that interference
addresses two different audiences: the local one
and...
ilze black: the whole
interference-project
is very local, which also applies to uphone,
which is set up locally with a local telephone number.
that is where you dial in - you will always be more
accessible to the local phone as you would maybe
be if you ask to call to new york. the aspects of
uphone's
locality is interesting, because that allows the
option of both. it is a device you share with others.
you can run that kind of server together with your
mate - you don't need a big server, because the
files are quite small, which is very practical -
or you just do it for your own answering phone if
you want to make your own radio station.
i came across the uphone
quite a while ago, and i really wanted to support
that project. it entails certain programming and
certain time to spend on it to make it into a certain
shape, and the other question is actually to let
people know that it is out there, that there is
such a thing available. personally i found that
as interference in the context of eu funding and broad network of republicart
we can fill this gap for the artist and make those
communal/ public works to become more accessible
or more real if you like. hopefully, after this
period we get a diy-guide on how to set it up and
also an easy downloadable software one can use,
a documentation, which can be easily accessible
for others. the future of it depends on people.
i already know that there is lots of people asking
about it and wanting to use it in different settings
and different situations.
raimund minichbauer:
you stressed the local aspects of interference.
the project takes place mainly here in tower hamlets/bow
and south-east hackney. how would you describe these
local areas/communities?
ilze black: at the moment
we are in south east hackney, or in the broader
sense east/central london. for years it has been
mostly known for its immigrant communities and as
an area, where all small factories were located
during 16th, 17th and up to the late 20th century.
it has a lot of very mixed communities, there used
to be jewish communities, then in the 50ies a lot
of asians, bangladeshis, somalis arrived. there
are still a lot of squats. over fifty years many
artists took the risk and occupied empty buildings
here. me and also anna, we are both living here,
too, and i find it very interesting to observe the
regeneration-process that has happened here in the
last five years. i've been living on this street
for the last eight years. you actually see one street
changing so much - this makes you feel about it
differently as well, and also makes one questioning
what that regeneration really does for an area.
this street used to be a nice market street, and
now it's mainly galleries and accessory shops. the
fishmongers has been pushed out, the old fashion
cheese shop never arrived - things you would think
a little market street should do, but it actually
doesn't.
tower hamlets is regenerating
very strongly all its assets, and bow is where the
regeneration money really is at the moment. what
happened during the last two years, was that lots
of old tower blocks were taken down and new housing
built. with this new housing there was also a change
of inhabitants, a change of services taking place.
the bow festival,
which is one of our collaborators in interference,
has been also partially supported by tower hamlets
housing action trust. in a sense it is good, that
they want art to be part of the regeneration process,
so they invest part of the funding into art as well
as in the local area redevelopment. but then again
we can argue that maybe art is to blame for this
regeneration in the first place. well, I doubt that,
but surely artists do make an area look more sophisticated
as it might really be.
like uphone's
main server was hosted in limehouse
town hall, which again is an old council building
now run by artists-activists. it is an originally
squatted building, which now finally got licensed
to run. it is this self-activism, i think, which
east london is good about. lots of people just find
space, renovate it and then you live in it and see,
one day maybe you will be kicked out, or one day
you actually become legalised. in that sense we
are engaging with this whole issue of regeneration;
which on one side can be seen as very dodgy, because
you are actually being part of it, on the other
- change is inevitable. like the regent studios - it used to be called ada building, now it's called regent
studios - a change of name, change of inhabitants,
fast turnaround, raise of rent. one goes with another.
but the community is still here. artists are living
in the area, activists are living in the area, lots
of indymedia people are around here and at the same
time you find also quite diverse ethnic communities
nearby. a bit of this and bit of that...
raimund minichbauer:
what has informed your personal approach to sound
and politics in this project?
ilze black: well, i guess,
just like many artists, creative people, well, everyone
really, i got influenced by the events of september
11. back then in 2001 on september 11 i just finished
a project i had curated in latvia, 'untitled: subvertising
session', which in many ways was dealing with visual
and subversive strategies in public space. i must
say, after the events there were 2 years for me
of sort of a creative vacuum, almost. but then i
came across an article written by ben watson, which
also came out just after 9-11.
he is a music/sound critic and an official writer
for wired magazine. but wired
didn't want to publish it, because they found it
too controversial. in his text he was calling for
sound artist and sounds and he referred to stockhausen
and his comment of the 'greatest artwork' with regards
to 9/11 and how he got punished for that. in his
text ben watson put out this call for artists to
react to this situation, to wake up from this own/self/individual
obscurities and self-searches - i guess, i was very
much influenced by that article. I wanted to re-question
the decent of post 9-11 and
trace new possible ways of resistance through
works of art.
raimund minichbauer:
what are in general the most interesting aspects
for you personally in the whole project?
ilze black: maybe the
fact that all works here deal with this very borderline
of arts - engagement - participation - activism
- visuality/non-visuality. at the same time it resists
the representational mode. i am really struggling
with this idea how to use an exhibition format representing
those artworks. how can you represent this work
as an art work in a gallery context? and is there
a need to represent it as such at all? do we need
to make this final/intermediate event of the whole
project, where we might have the only possibility
to hear it all together, or rather hear bits of
it? because with some of the works you can't disengage
sound with reality - you need to be sitting in the
sun or walking on the street - to listen to graeme
miller's work for example. it is really a personal
experience, and you need to go through it in your
own time, not in the rush of an opening or closing
party. talking about sound, for me, wave sound is
one of the most interesting aspects, the sound of
the airwaves captured by technology. like in uphone,
you call in from your phone, but the sound you hear
is not only one's voice, it's also surrounding sounds.
the fact that often one doesn't recognise ones own
voice on the radio, on the telephone. i guess, it's
self-perception changed by space. it is this question
of how technology amplifies or disturbs the sound,
really, and how we as a humans engage with it or
even maybe get amplified, empowered.
raimund minichbauer:
thank you very much!